*Global CA-CoP* *CONSERVATION AGRICULTURE COMMUNITY OF PRACTICE*

*for sustainable agriculture and land management*

Dear Subscribers,

Please see herebelow the latest from David Duthie of Bioplan, UNDP.

Apologies for any cross-posting.

*Amir Kassam *

*Moderator*

*Global CA-CoP*

e-mail: [log in to unmask]

URL: http://www.fao.org/conservation-agriculture


*Conservation Agriculture is an ecosystem approach to regenerative
sustainable agriculture and land management based on the practical
application of context-specific and locally adapted three interlinked
principles of: (i) Continuous no or minimum mechanical soil disturbance
(no-till seeding/planting and weeding, and minimum soil disturbance with
all other farm operations including harvesting);  (ii) permanent
maintenance of soil mulch cover (crop biomass, stubble and cover crops);
and (iii) diversification of cropping system (economically, environmentally
and socially adapted rotations and/or sequences and/or associations
involving annuals and/or perennials, including legumes and cover crops),
along with other complementary good agricultural production and land
management practices. Conservation Agriculture systems are present in all
continents, involving rainfed and irrigated systems including annual
cropland systems, perennial systems, orchards and plantation systems,
agroforestry systems, crop-livestock systems, pasture and rangeland
systems, organic production systems and rice-based systems. *




---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: David Duthie <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 15:59
Subject: A GEP to complement GDP?
To: bioplan <[log in to unmask]>


Dear BIOPLANNERS,



I have done quite a bit of GDP "bashing" here over the years, and am
currently reading David Pilling's Orwell Prize winning "The Growth
Delusion: the Wealth and Well-Being of Nations
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomsbury.com%2Fuk%2Fthe-growth-delusion-9781408893722%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267853173&sdata=YJv0BVfbAVjyB8iyDVqMb%2B9aQi878yDbsnvc9m6K%2Fbw%3D&reserved=0>"
- a surprisingly enjoyable de-bunking of GDP.  Chapter 9 explores the
devastating pollution in China during its period of exponential economic
growth, but also describes how academic economists worked to produce a
green national GDP.



Now, Chinese academics and statisticians have teamed up with the doyen of
natural capital and ecosystem services, Gretchen Daily, and others
from the Natural
Capital Project
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnaturalcapitalproject.stanford.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267853173&sdata=DkQvlBAqv32MTAQfkosWtgk4r0fQwD64Qkwlpf0%2BP4c%3D&reserved=0>
to calculate an environmental/ecological equivalent of GDP - Gross
Ecosystem Product (GEP) for one region of China. Here are the metadata and
a link to a recent interview with Gretchen (pasted below my signature).



*************

Ouyang, Zhiyun, Changsu Song, Hua Zheng, Stephen Polasky, Yi Xiao, Ian J
Bateman, and others, ‘*Using Gross Ecosystem Product (GEP) to Value Nature
in Decision Making*’, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 43
(2020), 201911439 http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1911439117
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1073%2Fpnas.1911439117&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267863168&sdata=%2FJXswrfCannj91NRs8HtnnG5NAekr3tUdHCb5N12zIs%3D&reserved=0>
(free
access)



*To achieve sustainable development, there is a pressing need to move
beyond conventional economic measures like gross domestic product (GDP). We
develop gross ecosystem product (GEP), a measure that summarizes the value
of the contributions of nature to economic activity. We illustrate the
calculation of GEP in Qinghai Province, China, to show that the approach is
tractable both across China and globally. Known as the water tower of Asia,
Qinghai is the source of the Mekong, Yangtze, and Yellow Rivers and nearly
two-thirds of GEP derives from water-related values. GEP was greater than
GDP in Qinghai in 2000, and was three-fourths as large as GDP in 2015.
China is using GEP to guide investments in ecosystem conservation and
restoration. Gross domestic product (GDP) summarizes a vast amount of
economic information in a single monetary metric that is widely used by
decision makers around the world. However, GDP fails to capture fully the
contributions of nature to economic activity and human well-being. To
address this critical omission, we develop a measure of gross ecosystem
product (GEP) that summarizes the value of ecosystem services in a single
monetary metric. We illustrate the measurement of GEP through an
application to the Chinese province of Qinghai, showing that the approach
is tractable using available data. Known as the “water tower of Asia,”
Qinghai is the source of the Mekong, Yangtze, and Yellow Rivers, and
indeed, we find that water-related ecosystem services make up nearly
two-thirds of the value of GEP for Qinghai. Importantly most of these
benefits accrue downstream. In Qinghai, GEP was greater than GDP in 2000
and three-fourths as large as GDP in 2015 as its market economy grew.
Large-scale investment in restoration resulted in improvements in the flows
of ecosystem services measured in GEP (127.5%) over this period. Going
forward, China is using GEP in decision making in multiple ways, as part of
a transformation to inclusive, green growth. This includes investing in
conservation of ecosystem assets to secure provision of ecosystem services
through transregional compensation payments.*



I am sure that a single number statistic, like GDP itself, has a number of
limitations and problems, and five are explored in the article discussion
but, as the article concludes, it also starkly demonstrates that GEP for
this region exceeds GDP and this can have a powerful policy influence in
"dark places" like the UK Treasury, where the Dasgupta Review of the
Economics of Biodiversity is slowly maturing - hopefully 2020 will be a
vintage year for biodiversity!



Finally, simply because it is hard to avoid them, here is a small
collection of (mostly short editorial) articles on COVID-19 and the
environment/green recovery - all free access



Evans, K L, J G Ewen, G Guillera Arroita, J A Johnson, V Penteriani, S J
Ryan, and others, ‘*Conservation in the Maelstrom of Covid‐19 – a Call to
Action to Solve the Challenges, Exploit Opportunities and Prepare for the
Next Pandemic*’, Animal Conservation, 23 (2020), 235–38
http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/acv.12601
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1111%2Facv.12601&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267863168&sdata=mSKO21QWeDOKm9O9wOk%2Flbqi51EFWKYNsD9VFKp0G3Q%3D&reserved=0>



Everard, Mark, Paul Johnston, David Santillo, and Chad Staddon, ‘*The Role
of Ecosystems in Mitigation and Management of Covid-19 and Other Zoonoses*’,
Environmental Science & Policy, 111 (2020), 7–17
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.envsci.2020.05.017
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.envsci.2020.05.017&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267873159&sdata=3sgM%2BKU65paykgxp3AVn%2BC%2F4EYApKgujdpK6zNqzhvM%3D&reserved=0>



Gatti, Roberto Cazzolla, ‘*Coronavirus Outbreak Is a Symptom of Gaia's
Sickness*’, Ecological Modelling, 426 (2020), 109075
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ecolmodel.2020.109075
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1016%2Fj.ecolmodel.2020.109075&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267873159&sdata=Ja1vmlyvUXiw22K0oOn91aLtiB4Vu7j1V6DksiNPlms%3D&reserved=0>

Hanna, Ryan, Yangyang Xu, and David G Victor, ‘After COVID-19, *Green
Investment Must Deliver Jobs to Get Political Traction’*, Nature, 582
(2020), 178–80 http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/d41586-020-01682-1
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1038%2Fd41586-020-01682-1&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267883154&sdata=3M%2FhWHZDhCzTBaYDrRYbhGyjXWvXkdSF4dH1EoVe8IU%3D&reserved=0>


Hepburn, Cameron, Brian O’Callaghan, Nicholas Stern, Joseph Stiglitz, and
Dimitri Zenghelis (2020) ‘*Will COVID-19 Fiscal Recovery Packages
Accelerate or Retard Progress on Climate Change?*’, Oxf Rev Econ Policy;

http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/oxrep/graa015
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1093%2Foxrep%2Fgraa015&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267883154&sdata=60LTCp%2F5nRRqzdM99MuRRs4AyzuOz2HqzeIvVvZzLLA%3D&reserved=0>

Settele, Josef, Sandra Díaz, Eduardo Brondizio, and Peter Daszak
(2020) ‘*COVID-19
Stimulus Measures Must Save Lives, Protect Livelihoods, and Safeguard
Nature to Reduce the Risk of Future Pandemics. *IPBES,
https://ipbes.net/covid19stimulus
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipbes.net%2Fcovid19stimulus&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267893150&sdata=itESt%2BbfabMwv1zwbG831nSR0NZWWtSazvH0MzHcOPU%3D&reserved=0>



Waugh, John, Gabriel Thoumi, and Matt McLuckie (2020) ‘*Building Back
Better: a Marshall Plan for Natural Capital: Reversing the Decline in
Sub-Saharan African GDP in Nature-Based Tourism Sector From COVID-19'; *Planet
Tracker https://planet-tracker.org/download/1105/
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplanet-tracker.org%2Fdownload%2F1105%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267893150&sdata=FXOdJuYlBVjP3hyf2m%2BgOqRpZG%2BTMrIb6NkCYGFkEaM%3D&reserved=0>



 WWF (2020) *COVID-19 and Wildlife Trade: Perspectives and Proposed Actions*
https://www.worldwildlife.org/pages/covid-19-and-wildlife-trade-perspectives-and-proposed-actions
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldwildlife.org%2Fpages%2Fcovid-19-and-wildlife-trade-perspectives-and-proposed-actions&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267903143&sdata=c9popH6cChRG%2F7ICeTGWjKj5mHfFpQwN1HknZsxjMag%3D&reserved=0>



Best wishes



David Duthie



****************

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*Even nature has a price tag - and it's key to a more sustainable world*



Ideas about natural capital and ecosystems services have altered how some
governments value biodiversity – they could also help us build back better
after lockdown



3 June 2020



By *Adam Vaughan*



https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632851-500-even-nature-has-a-price-tag-and-its-key-to-a-more-sustainable-world/
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscientist.com%2Farticle%2Fmg24632851-500-even-nature-has-a-price-tag-and-its-key-to-a-more-sustainable-world%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267903143&sdata=2TLlXbqs%2FxUhSO3uxE0E8QNnmCFpSImEMxFKbchfLgE%3D&reserved=0>



IF YOU have ever heard of “natural capital” or “ecosystem services”, then
it is probably because of Gretchen Daily. The Stanford University biologist
pioneered these concepts, which aim to evaluate nature and what it provides
us with, and factor these values into economic decision-making.



Many countries have taken them on board, including the UK government, which
has a committee to advise on natural capital
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fgroups%2Fnatural-capital-committee&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267903143&sdata=xAqEtWsMtk5FfnmTCM%2BQGDoEaDbAkge%2F9RzU%2BgLE5JY%3D&reserved=0>.
Nevertheless, the idea is contentious
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscientist.com%2Farticle%2Fmg21628882-000-costing-the-earth-the-value-of-pricing-the-planet%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267913136&sdata=PoH3hIAPA8PgHMYfLPvkOdgMje1shMNa9ulJXAR%2FTp0%3D&reserved=0>.
Proponents argue that ignoring nature’s value when planning new homes,
roads and infrastructure hasn’t served wildlife and habitats well. Critics
say putting a price on nature will make our degradation of it worse.



In 2006, Daily helped to launch an international partnership, the Natural
Capital Project
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnaturalcapitalproject.stanford.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C1%7C637274853267913136&sdata=syE7DNTU%2BDf%2BxR%2FNO0W3zSpgVBLcidAK9FYVI715MfI%3D&reserved=0>,
bringing together academic and conservation groups to further this agenda.
She has also developed a metric to rival GDP, called Gross Ecosystem
Product (GEP), which could help countries better value nature.



*Adam Vaughan: Why do you think natural capital is so divisive as a
concept?*



Gretchen Daily: If one has been fortunate enough to get to know nature,
then nature is

infinitely valuable. And it’s beyond crass to put a price tag on nature, to
quantify even the value of some dimension of nature. It’s kind of like
putting a price tag on human life. And I share that perspective. But most
people don’t know nature. So many kids are growing up in urban contexts
where they never even get their hands in soil, or climb a tree, or see the
stars in the sky at night. And it’s a fantasy to think otherwise. In most
arenas of the world, nature scores an absolute zero.



We’re not about putting a price tag on nature. That’s the shorthand that’s
often used. We are all about this deeper transformation: it’s much more
about engaging people and enabling people to be part of the solution.



Over the past century, we have been undergoing the great degradation of
nature. If we are going to take this beautiful blue planet to a place that
by the end of this century is remotely liveable for our descendants, we
have to bring nature into the core of decision-making and into those
cost-benefit arenas – and change those arenas. But it’s not going to happen
overnight. In the short term, it’s about driving together the economic
decision-making with valuing nature. Over the long term, I hope very much
that there’s a deeper cultural shift.



*The Natural Capital Project was set up to help make this happen. How is it
going?*



There’s a widespread recognition that we need to include the values of
nature in decision-making, in a very systematic kind of way. The way we
have operated has been through partnerships with governments, banks,
businesses, communities and other groups. We aim to understand why
decisions are made the way they are today, and how we can then go about
changing them.



One of our biggest successes has been China. It has recognised how
devastating the 20th-century industrial revolution growth model has been.
It was pursued for good reasons, lifting people out of poverty. Yet it went
way too far. The price tag is really devastating – the poisoned water, the
poisoned air, the poisoned land. Now, the Chinese leadership has asked
three questions. The first is where and how much nature should we protect:
it is pursuing the idea of an ecological civilisation. Second is how can we
harmonise people in nature and have jobs. The third question is how can we
track our performance.



*Given China’s emphasis on economic growth, is it really taking rival
metrics to GDP seriously?*



We know GDP is China’s main metric for tracking performance, and it is used
in promoting or demoting government officials. The merit system is very
GDP-growth oriented. Its number one use of GEP accounting is to illuminate
for society nature’s values – all the interconnections. In the GEP
accounting, you can see exactly where the values are coming from, at what
levels, how they change through time and which landholders are stewards of
nature.



China has this party school that all officials get trained at. One of the
school curricula now focuses on natural capital, and it has become a major
programme. I’ve met with the leader of the programme. It’s definitely being
taken seriously.



*China has a clear motivation to clean up its own environment, but is there
any hope it will extend these standards internationally, for example in the
giant construction projects in its Belt and Road Initiative
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscientist.com%2Farticle%2Fmg23931932-600-biodiversity-in-crisis-earths-giant-construction-projects-mapped-out%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267923137&sdata=gNkHtjDWK2r%2BrQyF4bxC5Om6z2567IfduM%2BELdKRSTI%3D&reserved=0>?*



China is coming out of the century of shame, of the time of Opium wars and
other foreign involvement. [The period between 1839 to 1949 is sometimes
called the century of humiliation.] It’s now wanting to re-emerge as a new
civilisation. There is this matter of building a new identity and I think
it’s an open question how much that will be around the ecological
civilisation and China’s position in the world.



The countries in which it is investing are desperate for investment. In the
best form, China would deploy the same approaches that it is now requiring
domestically in its overseas investments. China will always say: “Well, we
don’t meddle in the national affairs of other countries and their
policies.” But if we are going to get to an ecological civilisation
globally, China has to dictate a standard. It could go either way.



*Given that the world has missed the majority of the UN biodiversity
targets
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbd.int%2Fsp%2Ftargets%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267923137&sdata=ja7OTRbrmW0T0LXN9J4A5FX3SpElWSj4Wsti1YeNT2s%3D&reserved=0>
it set a decade ago for 2020, how would you say international efforts to
stem our destruction of nature are doing?*



I feel we are really at an inflection point, so my heart is in my throat.
We are expected in our lifetimes to lose at least half of the different
types of life forms – the different plants and animals – that inhabit the
planet. But on the bright side, there are examples from many countries of
tremendous progress. For example, in Ecuador, rights for nature
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tandfonline.com%2Fdoi%2Fabs%2F10.1080%2F10455750802575828%3FjournalCode%3Drcns20&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267933126&sdata=5xYYQpNp7zq3LucJyMFRRZniBBuS1lYJvV2EF7sKV3w%3D&reserved=0>
are written into the constitution. Curridabat in Costa Rica has made
pollinators citizens of the town. I feel we see a huge surge of interest on
the part of countries worldwide to take up the natural capital approach
because it promises to open a pathway of both green and inclusive
development.



*Will the covid-19 pandemic change our perceptions about nature?*



Even with the uncertainty as to the virus’s exact transmission pathway and
point of origin
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscientist.com%2Farticle%2Fmg24532764-000-the-hunt-for-patient-zero-where-did-the-coronavirus-outbreak-start%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbioplan%40groups.undp.org%7C9d1ea6eb63a3484ca41608d80e1a4407%7Cb3e5db5e2944483799f57488ace54319%7C0%7C0%7C637274853267933126&sdata=1VsPOQrgJvjSCa6NEPIjMLSRaR3YPUomcH8826seW14%3D&reserved=0>,
the lessons are very clear: there is tremendous risk in consuming wildlife,
and in these wet markets. We are all deeply interconnected – people and
wildlife. We need a much deeper transformation of how we think about
wildlife and whether we trade in wildlife, and also in the food system more
broadly. With so many people on the planet, we need to really rethink how
we produce food, and that’s in every country.



*You told me that natural capital shows a way to “build back better” after
the pandemic. Is it fanciful to hope that governments will prioritise
valuing nature as they rush for economic recovery?*



I do think there’s a huge risk that it will sound like a green diabolical
plan that’s insensitive to the suffering of so many millions. Pandemics
have always been and always will be part of the human experience.



But the blessing is that this one has caused us to pause, and that we have
come far enough in driving this transformation [of governments and other
institutions valuing nature] in a very quiet and almost unknown way. It is
under way in a powerful enough set of institutions, in a diversity of
cultures.



If it were only China, we wouldn’t be able to get anywhere. It’s the fact
that it’s all across Latin America and it’s coming up in many other
countries: other parts of Asia, parts of Europe. It’s embedded enough. We
have the opportunity of a lifetime now, because people can see that with
the stroke of a pen, we can change everything.



*Even in the US, where president Donald Trump has rolled back many
protections for wildlife and ecosystems?*



The changes have been under way for a long time and predate Trump and this
administration. They have long-term implications for sure. And it will be
hard to get the environment back onto the more conservative or right wing
agenda. There’s a complete disregard for science: we could see that with
Mike Pence visiting a hospital and not wearing a mask. If we manage to get
a different administration in this year, at November’s election, then
there’s a chance to build back better. If we don’t, then there’s deep
concern.



*Politics clearly matters when it comes to preserving nature, but it is
unusual for an academic scientist to be so engaged with governments and
other stakeholders. What factors have shaped your world view and approach
to your work?*



I was born in Washington DC, and lived between the US and Germany. We
travelled a lot. In Europe as a teenager, I saw all the protests over acid
rain, corporate capitalism and America – all these movements that
intermingled together with the environment movement. And that’s what got me
into this area of science.



I thought way back then that scientists could make a difference, and that
science was the answer. I definitely see science as part of the answer now,
but I have been humbled each step of the way as to how there are so many
other essential elements and ingredients to driving the transformation that
we need.



*I understand that biologist and population expert Paul Ehrlich was an
influence, too. You first met him when you mistakenly attended his class
thinking he was the German Nobel-winning immunologist of the same name.
What did you learn from him?*



I ended up becoming interdisciplinary in ways that I learned through Paul.
He has developed expertise in many different fields. He also let me realise
that to become an effective scientist, I would have to connect with all
types of people. And he gave me confidence that I didn’t have at the
beginning to do stuff that others might not have been doing.



*Despite all this, you still find time to do fieldwork. Is there anywhere
in the world particularly special to you?*



Costa Rica. I feel it awakens something that is probably in all of us.
Being out in a place where the dawn chorus is so loud you cannot possibly
sleep through it. It’s impossible to sleep in, because there are so many
different insects, frogs, birds and mammals. They just go nuts in the
morning and I absolutely love being in the midst of all that.

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